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Published Oct 18, 21
12 min read

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I desire to provide you all a break for a minute and also transform to Mr. Swartz. Normally, we would certainly have had two panels, but we didn't recognize exactly how the Us senate would certainly be running today, so in an initiative to make certain we obtained through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you point out in your testimony as well as your declarations that the treaty with Bermuda likewise pierces bank secrecy and also provides a system for us obtaining the info we need. There have actually been some mutual legal help treaties which contain stipulations relevant straight to sharing bank documents or various other economic details.

Swartz. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. With regard to that specific concern, the committee might be referring to the relatively brand-new stipulation that appears, as an example, in our E.U.-U.S. Mutual Legal Aid Treaty, the recognition of financial institution documents stipulation. That was a stipulation that was composed and embraced in the context of the E.U.

Under that provision, it's possible for the requesting celebration to inquire regarding whether an account exists in the asked for nation, or in the instance of the E.U., among the asked for member states. Afterwards, the demand, if there is an identification of an account, have to be followed up through a standard shared lawful help treaty.

And when it come to Bermuda, our record of teamwork has actually been very excellent. Our team believe that the document we carry the manufacturing of documents, including bank records, is such that we are positive that the stipulations consisted of in this mutual legal support treaty, which do call for participation on the manufacturing of documents, will be adequate to make certain that we acquire the documents we need for our financial investigations and also other examinations.

Some other MLATs additionally permit for urgent, non-written kind demands to be made. Mr. Chairman, while it is true that the Common Lawful Support Treaty does require demands in written kind, it was the judgment of the mediators that it sufficed that, in this case, with regard to Bermuda, we would certainly be able to get expeditious feedbacks to our demands as well as additionally provide such actions to Bermuda's demands, especially since we have a practice currently developed that will proceed, we think, under the treaty of being able to convey those requests through e-mail or via fax.

Senator Cardin. So was this, primarily, a choice made by UNITED STATE mediators, that it was not required, understanding exactly how we can rapidly get faxes as well as e-mails sent? Is that reasonable sufficient to claim, or otherwise? Mr. Johnson. Legislator, if I can assist on that one? Senator Cardin. Sure. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda resisted that due to the fact that they intended to see to it that the demands were clear and also in an extra formal method. Yet in the arrangements, it likewise ended up being clear that they accepted that such request can be made by fax or by email. The real issue they were concerned about was not discovering a rapid means to make a demand, yet really simply taking oral demands off the table.

So we're certain that we've got the ways in position that we can make immediate requests of them in a manner that will certainly be efficient. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I could add, in reality, while it is an advantage to be able to make dental demands, in practice, it's extremely uncommon that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. Mr. Johnson, do have any kind of remarks on the financial institution documents problem? Mr. Johnson.

The distinction between being able to do an oral demand or having the ability to utilize among these various other really fast ways, we believe, is not substantial. Legislator Cardin. There've been some concerns increased about the competence of Bermuda regulation relative to forfeitures of proceeds and agencies of criminal offenses.

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Mr. Chairman, we are. The Common Lawful Help Treaty in Write-up 17 does obligate Bermuda to supply support to the United States in process connecting to forfeit of proceeds and also agencies of crime, to the degree allowed by the legislation of Bermuda.

We have actually had 2 instances of successful ask for restriction and also loss of possessions. Both circumstances were a success and we were able to acquire the funds. As a basic matter, support is available under the laws of Bermuda, and I do think that's vital to anxiety, with respect to freezing, seizing, and restraining possessions, consisting of for matters connecting to terrorism and also terrorism financing.

It must be noted that loss aid is not restricted to what is permitted under Bermuda's domestic legislation. When it come to a UNITED STATE order, Bermuda can not waive a particular instrumentality of nondrug offenses, since that power doesn't exist domestically. However once more, that's limited to agencies in nondrug offense situations.

Legislator Cardin. In the Bermuda arrangement, there's an arrangement that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can deny collaboration in capital cases.

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Are we hindered as a result of that or is there a means in which we are able to work together under this treaty, even in those situations? Mr. Chairman, we think and we hope we still would certainly be able to work together.

As a matter of fact, we have that experience with various other countries that have actually placed comparable interpretations on the mutual legal help responsibilities, as well as we've been able to work out plans in a number of instances that enable us to get proof or talk about whether the evidence is significant enough to go forward with some sort of further steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Legislator, if I might simply include in that, among the factors this treaty took as lengthy it did to bargain and end is since it was very important to us to make certain that there had not been an express constraint on aid in funding instances in the treaty itself.

Swartz related to you. As well as that way we believe that helps maintain the principle that's crucial to us, that such collaboration should be offered, irrespective of the type of case. And also we assume this has also substantiated with some other countries, where despite similar issues concerning participation in resources instances, they have, for instance, had the ability to offer support to the nonpenalty phase of a test or another event examination.

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Senator Cardin. They do hold the right under this treaty to reject teamwork where the United States criminal justice system is seeking resources punishment? Mr. Johnson. Legislator, they hold the right under the treaty to not give help in cases that contrast public law or their crucial passions, and they have actually informed us that they analyze that to enable them, in fatality penalty cases, to exercise that.

I simply wanted to make it clear that they would certainly not be an offense of the treaty. We understand their analysis, that if there was a case pending right here that we needed their aid, where, plainly, the district attorneys were seeking the fatality charge, Bermuda can make a decision not to comply under this treaty.

If I might state, Mr. Chairman, importantly, the treaty would certainly call for, since this would certainly be a rejection under Write-up 3 of the treaty, that initially there had to be consultations with the United States, before that denial can go ahead. And I believe that's an important facet of the settlement that Mr.

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Rather than having an explicit provisionSpecific this is one of a set of collection under problems assistance may help denied after refuted, and, among other things, that there must be need to as factor to consider whether assistance can support given, subject to such conditions as problems requested country asked for necessary.

As well as I assume that would be valuable for us to have that info in this board. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient work right here, given that this arrangement was previously authorized by this board. As I said in my opening, we authorized it as well late in the 111th Congress for activity.

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Have there been any considerable changes in our financial investment partnership with Rwanda since last November when you provided statement on this treaty? What we have actually seen considering that last November is an increase in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and I can provide you a few instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major resort in Kigali. And, likewise, Marriott Hotels is entering to help with the nation's growing friendliness market. So I would claim that, offered this pattern of enhanced financial investment, that it is essential that the defenses be afforded for them.

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financiers. Senator Cardin. I thanks for that (foreign tax credit). You also mentioned the reality that the United States is exploring various other reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. I believe you stated another country. I assume we have five existing bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply share with us various other countries that the United States has revealed passion in negotiating treaties? Ms.

Senator Cardin. Thanks. I have actually been informed by the team that I ought to ask the concern of whether the management still sustains the Us senate adoption of the Rwanda treaty, because it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We absolutely do. Legislator Cardin.



I think that completes the questioning. We may have some additional inquiries for the record. As you understand, the record continues to be open for 24-hour, so you get a break. That's a rather quick turn-around time for this board. Yet I do value your patience with the board and thank you quite for your statement today.

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As established out listed below, we would like to provide updated info on reported UNITED STATE financial investment activity in Rwanda. In 2009, the stock of U.S. foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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As well as I assume that would be practical for us to have that information in this committee. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient job here, given that this contract was formerly accepted by this board. As I claimed in my opening, we approved it also late in the 111th Congress for activity.

Have there been any type of substantial adjustments in our investment relationship with Rwanda considering that last November when you offered statement on this treaty? What we have seen since last November is a boost in United States investment in Rwanda, and I can provide you a couple of instances.

Likewise, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is mosting likely to open up a major hotel in Kigali. And, also, Marriott Hotels is entering to promote the nation's expanding hospitality sector. So I would state that, given this pattern of increased financial investment, that it is vital that the defenses be managed for them.

capitalists. Senator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thanks for that. You also discussed the truth that the United States is discovering various other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you pointed out one various other country. I think we have five present reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show us various other nations that the United States has revealed rate of interest in bargaining treaties? Ms.

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Senator Cardin. Thanks. I've been informed by the personnel that I should ask the question of whether the management still sustains the Senate ratification of the Rwanda treaty, because it was held over from the last Congress. For the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Senator Cardin.

I assume that finishes the questioning. We could have some extra questions for the record. As you understand, the record remains open for 24 hr, so you obtain a break. That's a rather quick turnaround time for this board. However I do appreciate your patience with the board and thanks significantly for your statement today.

Response. As set out listed below, we want to give upgraded information on reported UNITED STATE investment activity in Rwanda. Aside from these updates, the answers given by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress continue to be accurate. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign straight investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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